PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS A SPOILER-RICH ZONE. If your diet requires you to dine on television spoiler-free ... good luck with that.


Tuesday, August 21, 2012

Was it Good For You, Too?

Episode 2.14: Innocence.Original Airdate 1.20.98

"Buffy and her friends battle the Judge and face unexpected danger from Angel, who has lost his soul after experiencing a moment of true happiness."

Zelda's Thoughts:

  • All the sad things ever. 
  • Spike's wheelchair has red piping.
  • "It's interesting to me that preparing looks a great bit like sitting on your ass."
  • Interesting that Dru always calls him Angel and Spike always calls him Angelus.
  • Poor Buffy. She wakes up after her first time and Angel is AWOL.
  • Should we have called a shenanigan about Angel getting his clothes on so quickly?
  • Gasp Evil Angel is evil!
  • I'm realizing as we watch this and Surprise how I hadn't noticed til now that, even my first time watching in order, I watched everything through the lens of knowing how Season Two ends. After seeing OMWF, I caught a few random episodes on tv here and there before barrelling straight through in order the following January. So I always knew that Angel turned evil (and I always knew he didn't get better right away), that Angel killed Jenny (though I was completely stunned the first time), and that he got sent to Hell at the end of season two (I also always knew about Joyce, though I hadn't seen that episode). And so while the first time I watched those episodes I was surprised, watching in order, I knew generally what was coming. But it's interesting how long it goes where we know Angel has turned evil and no one else knows yet.
  • Here's what Brian Thompson had to say about his roles as Luke and The Judge: "I've found over the years that people just like gluing stuff to my face. I'm not sure why that is. I wish they didn't. But it's okay."
  • Both Xander and Cordy are taking digs at each other but not fighting back when the other one strikes. An odd, uncomfortable dynamic.
  • "I'm naming all the stars" // "You can't see the stars, love. That's the ceiling. Also, it's day." // " I can see them, but I've named them all the same name, and there's terrible confusion."
  • "Well, he moves to New York and tries to fulfill that Broadway dream. It's tough sledding, but one day he's working in the chorus when the big star twists her ankle." adorbs 
  • Traits that Angelus has that Angel doesn't:
    • He's funnier than Angel.
    • He smokes. That's how you know he's truly evil.
    • Leather pants.
  • Angelus wants them to wait to destroy the world because he wants to psychologically hurt Buffy first. Which is totally in character for the awfulness of him.
  • Hey Daniel, Xander apologized for being an ass!
  • "I knew it! I knew it! Well, not 'knew it' in the sense of having the slightest idea, but I new there was something I didn't know." Amazeballs.
  • "The We Hate Cordelia Club, of which you are the treasurer!" Who are the other officers? Oh. Jesse. [Did someone remember me? ~Jesse]
  • He's so good at being awful. Smiling to see her, letting her kiss him, and then brushing her off. DB is really freaking good at being a complete douchebag. "Love you too."
  • POOR BUFFYFACE. Using "I love you" as one last salvo to try to get back the feeling they had last night.
  • They're both so good in this scene. Joss Whedon is a bastard.
  • "It is not justice we serve. It is vengeance." 

"Did someone call for vengeance?"

  • Willow's rebuff of Xander is perfect. I love her so much. "You have gross emotional problems, and things are not okay between us."
  • Hey, Xander had a good idea!
  • Another reason to love the characters - they realize something's wrong. Xander does, and Buffy does too. I'm glad Buffy was able to figure out that it wasn't Angel who said those things to her. Even though every word still burns.
  • And Willow catching on that Jenny shouldn't have known yet. 
  • Willow is the best friend ever. She looks at Buffy, and she knows what happened.
  • Poor crying Buffy. Stupid Angel (side note: SMG is really good at crying)
  • Angel in the sunlight is so creepy. I wonder whose grave it is in the dream.
  • Giles's face as he realizes Jenny knew. Poor Giles. Poor everyone. This episode, you guys.
  • A nice fake-out when we think Jenny brought Buffy to the Uncle, but it's actually Angelus.
  • We're assuming the Uncle was in a hotel room, and that's why Angelus could enter.
  • So ... tiny Sunnydale also has an army base? Actually, I'll let this go, what with the military base hiding under UC Sunnydale.
  • "I'm seventeen. Looking at linoleum makes me wanna have sex." And thus spawned 3 million jokes.
  • Oz's entire speech. Oz's entire speech. And you can see Willow reevaluating him and falling for him.
  • Angelus's first emasculation of Spike: leaving him behind from the Judge's debut.
  • "Don't you look spiffy!" <3
  • Giles standing by his Buffy - "She said get out." You can see how much it hurts him. But he supports Buffy.
  • Spike hiding and listening. He's used to being the dangerous one, but he's extremely vulnerable right now.
  • I love this episode. It's so fucking satisfying. Because it's so upsetting and little Buffy is so hurt and broken. But because she's our hero, she doesn't let that last. Yes, she got massively heartbroken, but she has a job to do. And she's fucking good at it. So she will explode the Judge with a rocket launcher without thinking. And then she'll kick Angel in the nads.
  • Also, DB's best acting to date: getting kicked in the nads.
  • God bless you, Giles. "Do you want me to to wag my finger at you and tell you that you acted rashly? You did. And I can. I know that you loved him. And ... he ... has proven more than once that he loved you. You couldn't have known what would happen. The coming months are gonna be hard ... I suspect on all of us, but ... if it's guilt you're looking for, Buffy, I'm not your man. All you will get from me is my support. And my respect." Best. Dad. Ever.
  • Joss doesn't let us for one second blame Buffy for this (even if she can't forgive herself yet).
  • "I got older." // "You look the same to me." *huggles*

Daniel's Thoughts:

  • Like we learned in Nightmares:
We get it, Joss.
Smoking is evil.
  • Still at a point where I love Spike: "You can't see the stars, love. That's the ceiling. Also, it's day."
  • Angelus is a good acting excercise for DB.
  • Stop being upset about Xander, Willow. You've got Oz now. But...I still get it.
  • I love that Angel doesn't just try to kill Buffy now. He really just wants to hurt her and mess with her. It shows an evil intelligence rather than just an animal.
  • And I think it's believable that Buffy is so clouded by her teenage girl neediness that she doesn't suspect right away that something is wrong. Love the dynamic there.
  • Jenny seems innocent in this. She withheld info, but she didn't know what would happen. I understand the initial lash out, but I think she's overly mistreated later on.
  • Xander is a dick. "Wear something trashy-er."
  • I don't like sad Buffy :( But Joss sure does!
  • Xander, learn from Oz. He's a gentleman.
  • Angel! You forgot a comma! "Was it good for you, too?"
Bad grammar is a sure sign of evil.
  • I love the continuity from Halloween with Xander knowing about military things.
  • I'm not going to call shenanigans on this...but assuming they went to the mall was pretty lucky. There are other crowded places in Sunnydale. And these things usually happen at the Bronze!
  • Judge: "What's that do?" Hee!
  • Love the Dru freak out with the Judge pieces all over her.
  • Cordelia: "Pieces? Our job sucks!"
  • Hey! It's Angel without all that gel!
  • Giles is such a wonderful dad-type.
  • Worst. Mom. Ever. Buy a cake. Or at least sing. Ya know, maybe I'm spoiled for having such a great mom who calls me twice a day on my birthday to sing me Happy Birthday. Come on, Joyce.


Note: This more of a debate than a crossfire and it's a combination of both "Surprise" & "Innocence"

Daniel:  Someone said something about Armageddon.  Should we add that to "Apocalypse called" stats?
Zelda: I dunno ... there was no Hell portal opened. Usually there's a Hell portal. What did he say?
Daniel:  Angel said that Dru was 'crazy enough' to bring forth 'Armageddon'.
Zelda: Well, I'd say that's pretty clear. Whether it's a Hell portal or not, Angel is definitely calling an apocalypse. Plus in this episode, Dru says "We're going to destroy the world. Want to come?"
Daniel: We agree, then. Apocalypse called!  Stats updated!

Favorite Lines:

Zelda: "What's that do?" - The Judge's last words
Daniel: "In my fantasy, when I'm kissing you, you're kissing me." - Oz 

90s Factoid:

Tasmanian Devil on Willow's overalls:

Arc/Continuity Stuff:

  • Willy the Snitch gets a namedrop but no appearance.
  • Willow finds out about Xander and Cordelia.
  • Xander uses his memory of army knowledge from Halloween

Voiceover - none
Oz's Hair - black with red roots
Dead Humans - 3
Dead Undeads - 1
Giles Unconscious - 0
Giles Cleans His Glasses - 0
Buffy Breaks a Door - 0
Evil Reveal - 1 (Angelus)
Unevil Reveal - 0
Shenanigans Called - 0
Apocalypse Called - 0


  1. Edward is an asshole to Bella: she curls up into a ball and ceases all life functions.

    Angel is an asshole to Buffy: she obtains rocket launcher and kicks him quite forcefully in the cash and prizes.

    Bella, 0... Buffy, 1,090,500.

    1. Yeah, but remember that time Parker was an asshole to Buffy and she became a beer-slugging cavewoman? That was awkward.

    2. I, I just love you, V!

      This recap reminded me what a great episode this was, thanks guys.

      I was probably the only one cheering Buffy on and hoping she'd be able to off Angel in this episode. I understand why she couldn't but I was disappointed none the less. Although, she did shoot a rocket launcher at a supposedly unkillable evil judge and blew him to smithereens so that eased the pain a little with its awesomeness. ;D

    3. Yeah, no idea what THAT was about, Z. I can only assume that Parker's freakish eyebrows somehow brainwashed Buffy temporarily. Although, to be fair, that was also equal parts Angel fallout and naïveté on Buffy's part.

      And I love you right back, Blinvy!

  2. Love this entry as always, agree with everything, except I may have to defend Joyce slightly on this occasion. She must have known Buffy was upset about something because it was blindingly obvious, hence why she probably didn't do the usual sing happy birthday and act all happy that families/friends do when it's your birthday. Maybe she thought if Buffy's upset she's not going to want me to do that (probably true, when you're really down people acting happy doesn't make you feel better) but she is going to want a cuddle, hence the cuddle.

    I read the dialogue of the scene again, even though Joyce said she couldn't see that Buffy had got older in terms of her life experience and maturity, I still think she must have known Buffy was miserable but trying to hide it. I mean she didn't even blow out her candle, that birthday ritual we're all socialised to do unless we're miserable or pissed off at the time when we're supposed to do it.

  3. Just gotta comment on the Parker reference... we needed him to be a douche so that we could fall in love with Riley when he finally decks the creep, and doesn't know why he just felt like doing so!!

  4. I realized just now that David Borneaz's Initials stand for both Dead Boy(xanders nickname for him) and Douche Bag

  5. Angelus is so much better than Angel. Just sayin'.